Many of you probably know by now, after reading some of my blog that I am not a fan of “playing god” with our hormones for Endometriosis, by using Progesterone Creams, Phytoestrogens or any plant food specifically taken for regulating our hormones imbalance. I know there are heaps of websites out there that recommend that these natural plants are the way to reduce your Oestrogen in the body. Vitex is often recommended for Endometriosis. I can see how they would help temporarily but I also have an issue with the concept of deciding what levels of any of these plants or creams we need to take.I am still researching this approach to help Endo but for me, I feel it is still not getting to the root cause of the condition and merely regulating a hormone imbalance and not the source of the hormone imbalance. Make sense?
Well, I discovered a completely different way of lowering our excess Oestrogen, cos as we know this is the main reason Endometriosis spreads and becomes worse and is possibly there to begin with….. not proven but a very likely source :)
I researched this information from David Wolfe. You have probably heard of him by now. He is a well-known Raw Food Advocate and knowns a heap about herbalism and natural sources of healing foods. He highly recommends DIM for Oestrogen dominance and I can see why.
See, the thing is that we don’t live in a natural environment. We consume large quantities of bad oestrogens in our diet without even realising it. Just about everything has been sprayed, processed and manipulated in some way, which unfortunately adds to the oestrogen levels in our body. This goes beyond diet and includes everything from Shampoo’s to Soaps and cleaning products. They are called DDT’s and they are all winding up in our body. These bad oestrogens are also found in the contraceptive pill – by the way :) So, all these extra Oestrogens are going to add to our already out of balance Oestrogen with Endometriosis. Naturally, we cut out as many of these bad oestrogens where we can, such as eating organic, cutting out processed foods, avoiding “bleached” products etc etc – read further blog posts for specifics on those……
However, they inevitably land up in our body or are still there from stuff we have done in the past…..
So, though we can regulate the natural hormones, we need a way to flush out the bad ones. This is where DIM comes in…..
Introducing DIM
How does it work?
DIM works on flushing excess Oestrogen from the body, rather than trying to minimise or control it with Prosterone hormones or phytoestrogens.
DIM also induces certain P-450 enzymes in the liver to block the bad Oestrogens (called 16a-hydroxyestrogen) in the body. It also works to enhance the production of the good Oestrogens in the liver.
What is it?
DIM is a phytonutrient or plant nutrient found in cruciferous vegetables. I would personally love to eat 50-60 servings of broccoli per day but I think I might grow tired of it pretty quickly :)
You can find it in cabbage, broccoli, bok choy, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale - you know the ones I mean now.
DIM is not an estrogen or a hormone.
Why do I recommend it?
It is not going to play havoc with your hormone balance but flush out the Oestrogens you don’t want in your body.
Why is DIM suggested for Endometriosis?
It essentially flushes out the excess and bad Oestrogens from the body. Endometriosis is made worse by too much Oestrogen in the body. By flushing it out, we can clean out the excess and focus on healing the liver, which regulates the Oestrogen levels and toxins in the body. Once we heal the liver, we can get back to a normal level of toxin removal and oestrogen removal by the liver. At the moment our livers are simply not coping, which means many toxins still remain in the body.
How long should I take it for?
I don’t recommend taking DIM indefinitely. Gage your duration by the hormonal symptoms you experience. You know the ones: sore breasts, headaches before your period, diarrhea before your period, cramps from your period, moodiness…. pretty much all the PMS symptoms. Once these start to go away, you need to focus your healing on the liver and not just on the hormone imbalance. There is more to this Endometriosis than just your hormones :)
I would recommend an initial time of one month and then give it a break for a month and see how you feel. It is not a bad thing to take this on and off as you need to.
Why? Well, we have Oestrogen Dominance….. now. If we keep flushing out Oestrogens, we will eventually get to a point where we flush out too many. This is never a good thing cos we do need Oestrogen – even if you hate them right now :)
How is this different from taking Phytoestrogens or prosterone creams?
Phytoestrogens work by trying to give the body more Oestrogen, it recognising the plant oestrogen as oestrogen and then reducing its own oestrogen production. Prosterone creams work by increasing the prosterone levels in the body, which essentially reduce the oestrogen – that is their job. DIM works on mainly the bad oestrogens and excess oestrogens and flushes them out. We are not manipulating the level of natural oestrogen in the body but flushing out the excess or bad oestrogens. See the difference?
What about Maca Root? You keep recommending that one, how do they fit together?
Maca works differently to DIM. DIM flushes out the bad Oestrogens and the “too many” Oestrogens. Maca doesn’t do that at all. It focuses more on regulating all hormone levels in our body. It is a balancing food with all it’s other benefits.You can take them together without any issues. Read more about how Maca can help with Endometriosis here.
* Update 19/11/2011 – I have recently learnt that it is not a good idea to combine DIM with Maca as it interferes with Maca’s ability to regulate hormone imbalances. Choose one or the other or do one for 3months and the other for 3 months but never at the same time :)
Where can I find this DIM product?
You can find DIM at My Natural Fertility or at your local health store. It will also describe the ideal dosages.
DIM is the only thing I have found so far that I would really recommend to regulate a particular hormone – Oestrogen. It works on a completely different playing field to many of the other plants recommended for Oestrogen dominance, so I feel confident that it won’t cause any long-term imbalances in other areas. Just don’t take it for too long :)
If you have any questions on this article, please feel free to ask me in the comments as I know many of the terms and explanation in this article may be quite complex if you are new to this site :)
can i combine dim with vitex. i have endometriosis. already underwent surgery once. no child yet. planning to have kids in the next one year. is it safe.
Hi Swapna,
I wouldn’t really combine the two. I find combining Maca with Dim gave me and other girls a bad reaction. Maybe stick with one or the other :)
HI Melissa,
I have my endo cysts removed and was on pills for around 6 months. My endo symptoms seemed to have subsided during that period. Due to side effects of pills I decided to stop them and within two months I am getting the symptoms back. I have started the pills back again as I dont want to go through surgery anymore.
Hard to say if I an estrogen dominant as I am very skinny. Usually females with high estrogen collect lot of fat. I do relate my endo to food allergies and toxins as I am gluten and dairy intolerant, allergic to eggs and sensitive to shrimp, chicken and tomatoes. I have been eating these for quite a while and been accumulating all those toxins.
It should be worth correlating females with endo and food allergies than endo and high estrogen. Someone should work on the statistics I guess.
Can I take DIM and BC pills at the same time?
Papaya, flax seeds have phytoestrogens….can they be taken safely for endo cysts. Also, is it safe to have them with DIM?
Can you please give me more details on how you use Crystal salt stick as deodorant and bicarbonate as shampoo?
Hi Trisha,
There are other options besides the contraceptive pill for endo. They just mess with your hormones more and create other imbalances in the body. It is true that more oestrogen is stored in fat cells but our brain is also a fat cell, so we can still be skinny and oestrogen dominant. You should look at fermented foods for food sensitivities. It really works!
I wouldn’t recommend flax seeds or phytoestrogens unless they are for a very short time – like 3months. After that period they start to interfere with the adrenals and then things actually get worse. You can take them with DIM.
You can buy the crystal salt stick at a health shop. I mix about 2 tablespoons of bicarb in warm water and pour that over my hair – depends on how long your hair is – mine is short. Mix it up and then rub in. Rinse out and then spray your hair with apple cider vinegar for a natural conditioner. Hope this helps,
All the best
Check out the Livestrong website about side effects of toxic DIM. I had all these symptoms and learned a hard lesson NEVER experiment with herbs. Read side effect list thoroughly. Something tauted as healthy maybe terribly bad for you forewarning folks.
Hi Janine,
Thanks for sharing this. I had no idea DIM was so bad.
Please shine some light on the side effects i have been doing research and can’t find any. Thanks.
Hi – I would just like to say that my estrogen tested low with saliva but high in blood work and DIM has been a MIRACLE for me. I was all about trusting the saliva testing but now I am wondering if the good old blood test was actually more accurate, even though I know it’s not supposed to be true. I have spent years reading info about natural healing, mainly in an effort to try to feel better and understand my crazy body. I have had bouts of pain with my period that were too terrible to describe and nothing would make it stop. I have clued into the connection with my liver and have done liver cleansing and it has been very helpful but I could not seem to do it enough to “stay ahead” of my estrogen building up. A combination of DIM and then being very strict with my diet during the days leading up to the beginning of my cycle seems to be the trick for me….for now…and hopefully for good!?!
Hi Juliet,
That is awesome! So happy to hear it! It is great to hear that you no longer have as much pain with endo!
Had to pipe in w/ this one. I have endo but ironically, I was NOT estrogen dominant (did that saliva test per my naturopath’s suggestion) even tho I had all the symptoms. It debunks everything we hear that the two go hand in hand.
So get that test. It will be a hundred or so dollars depending on who does it & what they charge but it’s worth it.
Wend
Do you have more information about this estrogen dominance saliva test?
I will write a blog entry on it for you shortly :)
Hi Amanda! The best thing would be to ask your local Naturopath as they would give you the test kit. Or you can order one online but I would prefer to go thru a Naturopath ‘cos then they could go over the results w/ you & let you know what course would be needed.
All it is is spitting in a few vials thruout the day so they can test your hormones. It’s better than a one time blood test as it’s more accurate.
Hope this helps!
Wend
Hi Mellissa
I’m taking progesterone. is it OK to take DIM along with that?
No I probably wouldn’t advise doing that. Progesterone needs to work independently of any hormonal treatments. I hope this works well for you! Let us know how you are going :)
What you said struck me as the truth Melissa. But how to help yourself mentally & emotionally when you don’t have the opportunity, the means in which to do so? People need that support, guidance in order to advance. We can only get to a certain point on our own & then we need Help. But what happens when you don’t have that help (face to face, locally, ‘net only provides the ideas not the actions)? When you try to get help & are knocked down, doors slammed in your face & you get the “Sorry can’t help ya, but those are good ideas” type of responses.
Not looking to take over your blog so I kept this short. Also not looking for pity. Only thing I can do is Survive my life; not Live it.
Wend
I think we can find answers on the net and within ourselves. We have a personal power in each of us. We only need guidance to find the answers. You can live your life sweets! Just start to think you can and believe me, you will! Lots of hugs and love Melissa
I recently brought some dim what else can i combine with it? I think im estrogen dominant. not sure if progrestrone are low or normal
Hi Desiree. I would first establish if you are Oestrogen Dominant as this is not something you want to play around with. Some girls with endo aren’t necessarily oestrogen dominant. It is a simple saliva test. If you don’t want to get a test done, you may be saver with Maca Root Powder. This regulates all our hormones. :)
You’re the one who mentioned sage tea LOL Didn’t know it was a phytoestrogen. Geesh, many things are! Can’t win can we!
I didn’t replace a baddie for another baddie (that’s a cool word LOL). For milk, I make organic hemp milk. I just don’t eat any bread (oh don’t get me started on how some breads contain L-cysteine made from human hair harvested in China!! naturalnews.com has that info!) I eat mostly fruits & vegs anyways.
I use Dr. Bronner’s liquid castile for shampoo. 1:1 ratio w/ water. I used to use baking soda but now it dries my hair too much regardless of how little I used. They say your hair doesn’t change but I disagree w/ that. It can ‘adapt’ to what you use just like your skin & body.
Wend
Hi Wend. I think Sage tea is okay for a short time but perhaps not as a permanent deodorant :) I know it is scary to get away from them.
Sounds like you are track with everything that you can. Have you looked at the emotional side? I know for me that was a massive part of my healing and still is. Check out Emotional Freedom Technique. You can find a practitioner to help you but you can do it for free too.
I read these last 2 posts & something caught my attention. I take supplements but it seems like I’m not getting better. In fact, I’m getting worse even after cutting out major culprits (dairy, sugar, gluten). I had ‘felt’ that I wasn’t absorbing the nutrients from foods & perhaps from the supplements I take. Do you think it’s ‘cos I am NOT? You think it’d be ok to open up the capsules & take them that way? But then like EPO, that’s in a gel cap, not powdered form. & how does having them be in powdered form help if we can’t absorb? If we can’t absorb nutrients from foods, then how CAN we remedy that?
A note on Sage tea, did you know that it can be used to help reduce sweating i.e. armpits as either a topical agent or drinking. I tried it topically & did notice an “antiperspirant” effect, however you do have to use some kind of “deodorant” which I just used lavender water. Another, some people have had success w/ it being a natural hair dye. Pioneerthinking.com & Motherearthnews.com has some good articles you can search for w/ that 2nd one.
Just FYI’s!
Wend
Hi Wend. It is ideal to take supplements in the purest form you can – powder is best. Ideally mix it into a freshly squeezed juice. If you fear you are not absorbing stuff, you really need to focus more heavily on your digestion. When things are in capsure form, your stomach juices have to break through the capsule first and digest them, which is more work. In powder form, they can be absorbed straight into the body. The best way is in liquid form as the body absorbs things this way, the fastest and easiest way.
Sage Tea is also a Phytoestrogen, so perhaps just be aware of that one :) I use a natural crystal salt stick and that works wonders. No smelliness, no alluminium and totally safe! I use Bicarbonate of Soda as a Shampoo – I actually found it on one of those sites too :) It is really great for my hair and it doesn’t cost me a heap each month either!
I think your first step is diet, then supplements and then exercise. If you have changed your diet to it’s optimum, you will naturally absorb things better. You really need to aim for more fruits and vegetables in your diet – aim for 80% fruit and veg. I am impressed that you have cut out all the other baddies :) The trick is to not just replace those with other, what I call “false sense of healthy” replacements. Cutting out bread and eating Gluten Free Bread, doesn’t necessarily make you more healthy. Replacing bread with fruit salad or a fresh garden salad, with fresh fish is really the healthy alternative. Does that make sense?
Thanks for the posts. I hope this helps :)
I’ve been reading your blog and you talk about liver function and hormone levels. How do you tell that they are not normal? Or can you? I’ve had tons of tests the last couple of years trying to figure out what is wrong with me and everything shows I’m 100% in normal range. Liver function, hormones, thyroid, etc. The only abnormal result I have is the ultrasound where I have a 8.6 cm cyst on my left ovary and a small cyst where my right ovary was. Changing my diet seems to help some, but I still have horrible constipation and what feels like a blockage at times. Also, feels that something is pushing on my bladder and of course the pain. They know it’s endo and adhesions as I have had 6 prior surgeries including a hysterectomy and removal of my right ovary. I would love to add supplements to my diet, but I seem to be very sensitive to everything and shy away from vitamins, herbs and minerals because of feeling weird or new symptoms. Thanks for your blog, I find it helpful.
Hi Lisa. There is a free liver test on the site, http://www.cureendometriosis.com/free-liver-test-the-link-between-endometriosis-and-our-liver/. Liver and hormone test need to be done in a very specific way or they don’t show up any results. Liver tests should be done at different times too. Type in “liver test” into the search box to find out what they are.
It sounds to me like you probably have a gluten intollerance. This will indirectly affect the liver but won’t be as dramatic as with me, perhaps. Gluten will make you feel bloated, push on your bladder and also give you incredible pain. You will also struggle to absorb foods and supplements, which could explain why you don’t like taking them. I take as many supplements as I can in Powder form – so I throw them in a smoothy and drink them. That way your body can absorb them easier.
You can reduce large cysts with Papaya or Sage Tea. Drink the Sage Tea, three times a day for a month and have it tested again. They are actually easier to treat than Endo because we can see them on an ultrasound.
I hope that helps :)
Hi
Yes, Evening Primrose definitely helps with breast tenderness because I have used it for years.
test
I still have my ovaries tho from my hysterectomy. My hormones were up & down afterwards from the surgery itself. My hormones were like that too from a previous surgery to remove the scar tissue. That’s why I waited a year to be sure they evened out. My endo is a bit better, but would seem if my estrogen was low, that I wouldn’t have any probs. I still suffer from breast tenderness (my indication of when I’m ovulating as I don’t have the bleeding anymore, tho that’s a major plus LOL).
My husband & I are on a 2 month colon/ liver cleanse. We have a week or so left. I don’t notice any difference tho. We are doing Dr. Natura Colonix ‘cos they’ve had such great reviews but we won’t do it again.
That is really interesting about your Oestrogen levels. It could just be that your body is still recognising toxins in your body. Have you tried MSM or liver specific herbs? Would love to know what the liver cleanse involved.
Apparently evening primrose is supposed to help with breast tenderness. I met a lady who also had a hyster and she swears by it.
Thanks for sharing. Definitely interesting…..
To Julie, wanted to just ask if you can take something else besides birth control pills? My tubes are tied plus I had a hysterectomy (kept ovaries) but a doc before thought maybe birth control pills would help regulate me. They tend to have toxic substances in them (like Melissa said) that make our symptoms ‘appear’ better but really just hide the real cause. I’m just saying this ‘cos sometimes women take birth control pills not for the ‘birth control’ part!
I have tried DIM but didn’t seem to work for me. It made me feel ‘odd’. Not saying DIM was the cause, maybe wasn’t the right time to try it? Heck, maybe the one I tried, even tho it said DIM, was a low grade version. Proof positive you have to really research what you buy.
Another thing I found out too is that we ASSUME endo is ‘estrogen dominance’ but sometimes it’s not cut & dry like that. I had my hormones tested w/ a saliva test & they all were in normal range. Estrogen was actually on the low end! (Odd!!) My progesterone was normal too but a bit on the low end so I tried a bioidentical prog. cream. Helped some but not enough. I always assumed & told people that I am estrogen dominant ‘cos of endo. Docs told me I’m estrogen dominant. But my test concluded I’m not. I have no clue! Does not make sense.
This was a year after my hysterectomy; it’s why I waited that long to be sure my hormones evened out.
Just raises more questions it seems.
Wend
Thanks for sharing Julie. I find it interesting that your Oestrogen levels were low and this is often high in endo. Perhaps it has to do with having the hyster that it is different? They change your hormone levels significantly. Mine are definitely high as I have had them tested and have noticed when I decrease them my endo is better. Perhaps it is better to focus on healing your liver than on DIM??? Your liver ultimately gets rid of the toxins in your body that would be causing inflammation and subsequently endo. I have been reading about Leaky Gut Syndrome – shall do an article on this one soon – but maybe have a read and see what you think :)
Thank you Melissa for answering that! :)
Hi Melissa,
I am on birth control. Would this be something okay to take along with that?
I would probably not advise that one as the pill is a xenoestrogen and would probably make it ineffective. :)